el diablo
lately i’ve been fascinated by diablo cody. i love her punk/goth/rock style, the fact that she’s my age and an oscar-winning screenwriter, and that she is witty and brash and cool; cool enough to blog about how dorky she sometimes feels, which just makes me like her more.
i found her fascinating before juno won its mucho awards, or before i read her book. i’m interested in her life, in how she got where she is today, and the fact that she changed her name to the spanish for “devil”.
but i was in no hurry at all to actually watch juno. partly because everyone kept talking about how witty and edgy and brilliant it is, and it always gets my back up when everyone tells me how much i’ll love something. and partly because i felt a sense of ownership, like: ”i knew about this movie months ago! i know so much about it i don’t even need to see it!”
but mostly it was ‘cos of the whole pregnancy-plot thing. as i once blogged for the guardian, hollywood has trouble handling unwanted pregnancies.
of course, i watched it in the end.
i thought was good, but i couldn’t help analysing it from a feminist standpoint, and coming to some unpleasant conclusions: for starters, i hated that michael cera’s character took no responsibility for his baby, and that the film condoned not telling his parents, like pregnancy is just a girl thing. i hated that the men in the movie were all clueless and weak.
from a semantic standpoint, i found the dialogue at the start of the film, where juno goes to buy the pregnancy test, overly contrived and unrealistic and when her friend shrieked, “honest to blog?!” it was so cheesy it made me cringe.
but worse than any of that, before i ever saw the film, i read an interview with diablo cody about whether the film was pro- or anti-abortion. and it bugged me.
not that everyone has to be pro-choice, but cody’s refusal to get into the topic (so as not to offend anyone?) irritated me, as if she thought it wasn’t worth talking about. worse, she said that pregnancy isn’t an important theme of the movie; just a plot device. so: she didn’t really care about what she was writing about, she just wanted drama and laughs, so threw in a baby and ignored the complications!
she didn’t care enough to take a stance on what juno should do, preferring to leave things ambiguous and bland so that hollywood feels comfortable and an audience doesn’t have to be too challenged. (there was no serious consideration of abortion, or any discussion on why juno chose adoption - that’s just what any decent girl would do, is the implication.)
end result? the film does come over as anti-abortion, but casually so, like the screenwriter didn’t care either way, which, let’s face it, she didn’t. i think a woman’s right to choose is too important a feminist issue for such careless treatment.
on the other hand, it is a good script, ellen page is clearly a star, and everyone in the film was great. the way jason bateman’s character is portrayed is very nicely done - he never crosses the line into creepy, which could so easily have happened. and the ending brought a tear to my eye. my overly-thought out verdict? juno IS good - but not ground-breaking. (in fact, the hype surrounding the movie just shows how awful films have become - shouldn’t well-made films be the norm, rather than the exception? save the hyperbole for the truly spectacular.)
moving on…
as i kept seeing el diablo’s candy girl: a year in the life of an unlikely stripper everywhere, i picked up a copy at borders.
it was a great read, although a little hard for me to relate to: i’ve never had the desire to watch a stripper, let alone become one.
i was full of scepticism before picking the book up, because i hate books that present stripping and sex work (the two are pretty indistinguishable; as this memoir makes clear) as sexy and fun. they are just a way for men to make money from young girls, and for other men to pay to feel better about themselves. all the men involved should get some self-esteem and a hobby.
although there is a small element of glamorising the lifestyle as liberating and cool, candy girl does illustrate the um.. hardships involved. every time i thought it was going to get too sensationalist, cody shared an insightful analysis on how sad and seedy and exploitative it all really is. if you know that, and can process it, like she can, maybe that makes it a rational choice, but it’s still an icky one and i never really understood her motivation.
and the end of the book, where cody talks about working at a peep show, was eye-opening and horrifying - there can be few things less sexy.
i just hope no young women read it and think that selling themselves is a cool career path; next step oscar. (film topic? any ole thing will do.)
May 28, 2008
Well, I’m going to give her stuff a very wide berth… and why don’t you pitch this?! It’s too good to go to waste, surely…! xxxxxxxxxxx
May 28, 2008
I agree with Peepo, great piece - pitch it! Haven’t seen the film yet, not desperate to either to be honest. xx
May 28, 2008
oh dear, should it be ella diabla?
Soz!! Maybe not diabla but it’s masculine and she’s not. There goes my proofreading again….
May 29, 2008
Thanks Helen and Peepo! Glad you liked it, but not sure it’s pitch-able - everyone had their say on Juno months back, I just *have* to be different/behind, LOL.
Peepo, her name is diablo so ‘el’ is okay in that context. The fem. would be la diabla (or maybe el diabla if it’s irregular like el dia…?) - plus I was referencing the Reaper ad on E4 (”…his boss is only el ruddy diablo!”) which made me laff back in the days when I watched TV ;)
May 29, 2008
Well, I bet you won’t be surprised to find that I disagree. (On Juno, not Candy Girl.)
“before i ever saw the film, i read an interview with diablo cody about whether the film was pro- or anti-abortion. and it bugged me.”
Well, as was drummed into us at uni, authorial intention counts for squat. You have to judge the film just on the film and I think, in this case, cody’s comments coloured the film for you, which is a shame.
“i hated that michael cera’s character took no responsibility for his baby, and that the film condoned not telling his parents, like pregnancy is just a girl thing.”
Well, first of all pregnancy *is* just a girl thing. You said it yourself - it’s a woman’s right to choose. I felt that Juno’s attitude was just her trying to assert her independence, like “You don’t need to worry about this, I’ve got it all under control,” which was very Juno. He wanted to help/be involved and she wouldn’t let him. Until the end, when she accepted her vulnerability and let him in. (Very sweet scene, btw.)
“(there was no serious consideration of abortion, or any discussion on why juno chose adoption - that’s just what any decent girl would do, is the implication.)”
I didn’t get that - it’s what any decent girl would do - at all. I felt it was entirely just what was right for Juno. Why did you need “serious” consideration of abortion? She went to the clinic, she decided against it - do we need to know why? It’s not a documentary.
The only thing that wasn’t considered, as far as I can recall, was Juno actually keeping the baby!
I think the abortion/adoption thing was done with great subtlety. We don’t need to be hit over the head with it, do we? I read criticism that she wasn’t upset about the adoption, but clearly they both were - that final scene was moving and distressing, I thought. (Being a big nelly, I was going “Oh keep it, just keep it! You’re both intelligent! You’ll be fine!”) I didn’t need to see her rending her garments or anything.
I’ll shut up now.
But first can I just say how much I enjoyed your mum chiming in on your Spanish. Her proofreading knows no bounds! :)
May 29, 2008
Well, I appreciate your commenting Keris, but I think it only cemented my opinion!
“Well, as was drummed into us at uni, authorial intention counts for squat. You have to judge the film just on the film and I think, in this case, Cody’s comments coloured the film for you, which is a shame.”
It *is* a shame the film was coloured for me, but I don’t agree authorial intention is unimportant - I think it’s important to consider any piece of art (film, book, whatever) in its wider context, otherwise what’s the point. I also think that, as I’m not writing a university essay but an opinion piece, I can base it on anything I find relevant. (Can’t I?)
Saying that, I am able to look at the film on its own, and make judgements on the basis of my experience of watching it, and that’s where I feel it appeased Hollywood’s anti-abortion stance pretty well.
“pregnancy *is* just a girl thing. You said it yourself - it’s a woman’s right to choose.”
A woman’s right to choose, always, but ideally the man would be part of the decision (or at least informed of it) and accept responsibility for his actions. It isn’t just a girl thing, and society, books, and films should not portray it as such. I find it just as unfeminist to say it’s nothing to do with the father as I do to say women don’t have the right to choose.
“I felt that Juno’s attitude was just her trying to assert her independence, like “You don’t need to worry about this, I’ve got it all under control,” which was very Juno. He wanted to help/be involved and she wouldn’t let him. Until the end, when she accepted her vulnerability and let him in. (Very sweet scene, btw.)”
It *was* a very sweet scene, but she only let him in when she had made all the decisions - he got to keep his boyish innocence, and the film condoned this. He loved Juno, that I got - but I didn’t *really* get that he wanted to take responsibility.
“I didn’t get that - it’s what any decent girl would do - at all. I felt it was entirely just what was right for Juno.”
What about the “it has fingernails” line? Why was it right for Juno? Never discussed, just brushed under the carpet so no-one got upset.
“Why did you need “serious” consideration of abortion? She went to the clinic, she decided against it - do we need to know why? It’s not a documentary.”
Cos it’s a serious subject and the film was one-sided, and that comes across as propaganda. And it’s my blog and I can have any opinion I want… ;)
“The only thing that wasn’t considered, as far as I can recall, was Juno actually keeping the baby!”
Yes, and I found that sad, too.
“I read criticism that she wasn’t upset about the adoption, but clearly they both were - that final scene was moving and distressing, I thought.”
More poignant to me - I think it ended well.
With an open adoption I would have found it a happier ending, though. (But “close that thing right up” did make me laugh…)
[Edited half an hour after posting for clarity.]
May 29, 2008
“Well, I appreciate your commenting Keris, but I think it only cemented my opinion!”
Pah! How could my insightful counter-arguments cement your opinion? ;)
“It *is* a shame the film was coloured for me, but I don’t agree authorial intention is unimportant - I think it’s important to consider any piece of art (film, book, whatever) in its wider context, otherwise what’s the point. I also think that, as I’m not writing a university essay but an opinion piece, I can base it on anything I find relevant. (Can’t I?)”
LOL - of course! (And also - no! Not if I say no!) And I’m not entirely sure I agree about the authorial intention thing either (but my god, did they ever go on about it at uni). But the thing is, your perception of the film may have been different had you not read the interview and that would probably be better … if that makes sense. (Unless I’m just saying if you hadn’t read the interview, you might have agreed with me more… which of course would have been better. It’s always hard for me to separate argument from ego. Sigh.)
“A woman’s right to choose, always, but ideally the man would be part of the decision (or at least informed of it) and accept responsibility for his actions. It isn’t just a girl thing, and society, books, and films should not portray it as such. I find it just as unfeminist to say it’s nothing to do with the father as I do to say women don’t have the right to choose.”
I was being provocative, I admit, but really - and I’m not saying I agree with this - it really *is* just a girl (or woman) thing. It’s the woman’s body. It’s the woman’s future. Yes, I agree that a man should accept responsibility for his actions, but what if he doesn’t? Off he goes on his merry way. If a woman doesn’t? Well, there’s the whole having to choose between abortion/adoption/baby question. If a man is equally responsible then he has equal rights to suggest the woman keep the baby? Against her will? Sorry, no.
“It *was* a very sweet scene, but she only let him in when she had made all the decisions - he got to keep his boyish innocence, and the film condoned this. He loved Juno, that I got - but I didn’t *really* get that he wanted to take responsibility.”
No, but why would he? He was just a kid. And, yes, so was Juno, but again - her body, her responsibility. He was able to keep his innocence. She wasn’t. (But I do think he genuinely wanted to help.)
“What about the “it has fingernails” line? Why was it right for Juno? Never discussed, just brushed under the carpet so no-one got upset.”
Um. I don’t remember the relevance of that line, sorry. Why was it right for Juno? Because she didn’t want an abortion and she didn’t want to keep it. Adoption is the only other option. Again, they could have delved more deeply, but what was it? A 90 minute film?
“Cos it’s a serious subject and the film was one-sided, and that comes across as propaganda.”
Well, of course it’s one-sided - it’s a film about one person’s choices. How would you have shown the other side?
“With an open adoption I would have found it a happier ending, though. (But “close that thing right up” did make me laugh…)”
Yeah, me too. But I also get why she wouldn’t want that (why no-one would want that). Too painful.
Coo. This is like a proper discussion. I really must get back to watching Friends repeats and eating sweet and sour chicken balls…
K x
May 29, 2008
Wow! Those are some comments! But I have to retort about the proofreading for behind the scenes Diane and I normally (when she’s in the city) have daily tongue-in-cheek banter about all aspects of language and its correct/incorrect usage, esp. Spanish, Italian and French. Plus, my comments should never be taken seriously/out of context at any given time…!
I’ve not seen the film because I was actually put off it by a friend of mine who felt it dealt too lightly and tritely with a serious subject. And also, having studied both English and Film at Uni, I have to say that we were never once told that authorial intent counts for squat. That seems quite insulting, really. When I did English at A Level we had no choice but to abide by authorial intention, much to my chagrin!
May 30, 2008
“But the thing is, your perception of the film may have been different had you not read the interview and that would probably be better … if that makes sense. (Unless I’m just saying if you hadn’t read the interview, you might have agreed with me more… which of course would have been better. It’s always hard for me to separate argument from ego. Sigh.)”
Hee - me too. I think you might have been saying that ;) I of course think everyone should agree with me :) I think the interview just made me think about it really deeply, which I don’t think it a bad thing. Except the more I think about pop culture from a feminist standpoint, the less enjoyable it becomes… pah.
“Yes, I agree that a man should accept responsibility for his actions, but what if he doesn’t? Off he goes on his merry way. If a woman doesn’t? Well, there’s the whole having to choose between abortion/adoption/baby question.”
Oh, I know - but in Juno, he should have been told she was pregnant, his parents should have been told, and there should have been some discussion about it. Very unfair for him that there wasn’t, and it annoyed me that the film condoned this.
“If a man is equally responsible then he has equal rights to suggest the woman keep the baby? Against her will? Sorry, no.”
I didn’t say that, and never would. He is equally responsible for creating the baby, obviously. He never has the right to tell the woman what to do. But he DOES have the right to talk about it and say what he’d prefer. It’s deeply unfair to the man to not tell him or allow him an opinion - as upsetting as it may be to hear.
“No, but why would he? He was just a kid. And, yes, so was Juno, but again - her body, her responsibility. He was able to keep his innocence. She wasn’t.”
I would like the film, supposedly edgy and progressive, to have taken a less conventional stance, to have not have left everything to the girl to decide, to have shown a more mature relationship - or at least, their attempt to have one, instead of the strong woman, wet wimp dynamic that passes for edgy in Hollywood.
“Um. I don’t remember the relevance of that line, sorry.”
When Juno went to the abortion clinic, that girl from her school told her the baby “has fingernails already” — then Juno comes running out of the clinic looking upset and later tells people “it has fingernails, you know”. End of her considering abortion. That’s where I got the ‘nice girls don’t’ message… I’d have rather they not include anything about abortion, that THAT.
“Well, of course it’s one-sided - it’s a film about one person’s choices. How would you have shown the other side?”
But it isn’t about her choices at all - it’s about pregnancy as a foil for dark comedy. It’s just a series of actions with no reasoning behind them (or none that we know about, except no abortion cos of the fingernails thing and clinics are scary) which we are supposed to understand and which I think had an anti-abortion agenda.
I seriously think Hollywood would not allow a film with a sympathetic protagonist where she said “I believe in a woman’s right to choose, but I’m going for adoption rather than abortion because I want to help someone who can’t have a baby of their own.” Or one where a woman had an abortion and wasn’t an awful person. That’s my real problem. No, Juno didn’t *have* to say that, of course, but someone should. And Juno should have said *something*, otherwise it’s a wasted opportunity and another victory for the “pro life” lobby.
“Yeah, me too. But I also get why she wouldn’t want that (why no-one would want that). Too painful.”
But maybe less painful in the long run, esp for the baby. I dunno.
“Coo. This is like a proper discussion. I really must get back to watching Friends repeats and eating sweet and sour chicken balls…”
God, that sounds good. Do you know how long it’s been since I a. watched TV and
b. ate meat?!!
I’m tired…
May 30, 2008
“And also, having studied both English and Film at Uni, I have to say that we were never once told that authorial intent counts for squat. That seems quite insulting, really. When I did English at A Level we had no choice but to abide by authorial intention, much to my chagrin!”
I was thinking about this again and it was definitely authorial intention rather than the wider cultural/historical context. That seemed to count for plenty, for example, when we studied the Victorians, we did as much history as literature. But every single lecturer told us that authorial intention was unimportant. Even if the author had written about what he/she meant, we were to ignore that. Is it Barthes? I think it might be Barthes. But also I graduated in 2001 and that may well be out of fashion now. It changes all the time, I think.
May 30, 2008
Um. I agree with everything you said above. Now pick yourself up off the floor and read on!
“When Juno went to the abortion clinic, that girl from her school told her the baby “has fingernails already” — then Juno comes running out of the clinic looking upset and later tells people “it has fingernails, you know”. End of her considering abortion. That’s where I got the ‘nice girls don’t’ message… I’d have rather they not include anything about abortion, that THAT.”
Yes, I remembered that during the night (sigh). The thing is, I think that *would* put someone (particularly a teenager) off abortion. There’s a difference between thinking you’re aborting a “group of cells” or a tiny person. Hopefully you’ve been fortunate enough to miss the recent (incredibly depressing) abortion debates over here, but that’s been an enormous part of it. I see your problem with it, but I found that to be fairly realistic.
“I seriously think Hollywood would not allow a film with a sympathetic protagonist where she said ‘I believe in a woman’s right to choose, but I’m going for adoption rather than abortion because I want to help someone who can’t have a baby of their own.’ Or one where a woman had an abortion and wasn’t an awful person. That’s my real problem.”
I agree. I’m not sure “one where a woman had an abortion and wasn’t an awful person” would be a comedy though. Just sitting here now, I can’t think of any “acceptable” abortions in popular culture. Has it been addressed in chick lit (I have a vague inkling there was one book, but I can’t think what)? On TV?
But also women are complicit in this, I think. Much like rape and miscarriage, women keep it secret if they have an abortion. What is it now? One in three women has had one, but I don’t know anyone who’ll admit to it. I’m not sure it can become so openly addressed in culture if it’s not openly addressed in society.
“No, Juno didn’t *have* to say that, of course, but someone should.”
Well, you’re a writer, woman - write! Write! :)
“And Juno should have said *something*, otherwise it’s a wasted opportunity and another victory for the “pro life” lobby.”
I wouldn’t consider it a victory for the pro life lobby. The opposite of pro life is pro choice, not pro abortion and Juno made her choice (whether you agree with her reasons for making that choice or not).
K x
May 30, 2008
Woo-hoo! It *was* Barthes!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_intentionality
I’m thrilled that I remember at least SOMETHING from my three years at uni.
May 30, 2008
“Um. I agree with everything you said above. Now pick yourself up off the floor and read on!”
Hee!
“Yes, I remembered that during the night (sigh). The thing is, I think that *would* put someone (particularly a teenager) off abortion.”
Exactly - and the potential alternatives in that scenario (giving birth then abandoning the baby to die, attempting suicide, god knows what else) are far worse. (I found when researching my domestic violence article that a high percentage of attempted suicides are pregnant women/girls).
“Hopefully you’ve been fortunate enough to miss the recent (incredibly depressing) abortion debates over here, but that’s been an enormous part of it.”
Not entirely - have seen some awful Daily Mail stuff and the like… sigh.
“I agree. I’m not sure “one where a woman had an abortion and wasn’t an awful person” would be a comedy though. Just sitting here now, I can’t think of any “acceptable” abortions in popular culture. Has it been addressed in chick lit (I have a vague inkling there was one book, but I can’t think what)? On TV?”
I think there was an article about this - forget where - about how women in pop culture who decide to have abortions always end up having a miscarriage or changing their mind. Dawson’s Creek, Party of Five, The OC… there’s a long list of TV shows.
And no, it wouldn’t be a comedy I guess! But better not to allude to it than to make an irresponsible reference. (Knocked Up is possibly worse than Juno for this).
“But also women are complicit in this, I think. Much like rape and miscarriage, women keep it secret if they have an abortion. What is it now? One in three women has had one, but I don’t know anyone who’ll admit to it. I’m not sure it can become so openly addressed in culture if it’s not openly addressed in society.”
That’s a good point - I haven’t had one, but there are very few people I feel I could tell if I did, for fear of disapproval, and no-one has ever admitted it to me, either.
“Well, you’re a writer, woman - write! Write! :)”
Oh yeah! Doh. ;)
“I wouldn’t consider it a victory for the pro life lobby.”
I bet they’re claiming it as one…
“The opposite of pro life is pro choice, not pro abortion”
Yes, of course you’re right. I’m obviously not some pro-abortionist zealot, I just want less bias and more feminist thinking in film (and, like, the world).
“Juno made her choice (whether you agree with her reasons for making that choice or not).”
She did - but I don’t agree with the reasoning or how it was presented or the influence it may have on other teenagers and the culture.
Thank god we live in a time and place where we can debate it without fear though, that is one good thing. xx
May 30, 2008
Ooh, that’s made me quite emotional; I actually welled up. Maybe I wouldn’t have such an issue with disagreeing with people if they were all as reasonable and intelligent as you. :)
Also. Doesn’t being a feminist take all the fun out of everything? I found myself sighing watching Springwatch last night when the wet bloke (Simon someone) was going on about what a “nag” the female osprey was…
May 30, 2008
Sorry, me again.
“I found when researching my domestic violence article that a high percentage of attempted suicides are pregnant women/girls.”
Also, I recently read that a high percentage of domestic violence begins during pregnancy.
May 30, 2008
“Ooh, that’s made me quite emotional; I actually welled up. Maybe I wouldn’t have such an issue with disagreeing with people if they were all as reasonable and intelligent as you. :)”
Aww, bless your cottons! Right back at ya.
“Also. Doesn’t being a feminist take all the fun out of everything?”
It really does! LOL. Even ‘Friends’ if you stop and look at it… so let’s not, shall we?!
“I found myself sighing watching Springwatch last night when the wet bloke (Simon someone) was going on about what a “nag” the female osprey was…”
Well there’s a ‘mad woman bird’ in Singapore - that’s it’s real name! Argh.
“Sorry, me again.”
Get lost will you?!
JOKING. I’ve never had so many comments! :)
“Also, I recently read that a high percentage of domestic violence begins during pregnancy.”
Yes, I read that too. Ugh.
Well done on remembering Barthes - I’ll be ahead of the curve when I go to uni, now! ;) They do change their opinions all the time on how to analyse though, don’t they? I take it with a pinch or 3 of salt…
xxx
May 30, 2008
Ps: Peepo, thanks for your comments/insight too! When you say we have banter about language though… isn’t it usually you *correcting* my usage? That or my introducing you to a lovely new word like keening or petard ;D xx
May 30, 2008
Really, it just pissed me off that at no time did Juno think she could keep her baby, go to college and have a good life. It’s like the miscarriage thing you mentioned in Party of Five etc, Juno had to ‘redeem’ herself for being a sexual female by giving up the baby.
Having had a baby at her age, keeping it and taking him to uni with me, I felt really offended.
May 30, 2008
You’re right, Camilla, there are so few positive cultural role models of teenage mums, but it doesn’t have to be a disaster - maybe if we were all a bit less hysterical about teenage pregnancy it would help… Are you familiar with the writer Ariel Gore? She had a baby as a teen and is passionate about getting out a positive message, which makes a nice change! x
http://arielgore.com/index.html
May 30, 2008
Nay, Diane, t’was me being RE-introduced to those words, surely!! (You cannot teach your grandmother to suck eggs) And I’m sure I’m never, ever critical…
Hey Keris -
“But every single lecturer told us that authorial intention was unimportant. Even if the author had written about what he/she meant, we were to ignore that. Is it Barthes? I think it might be Barthes. But also I graduated in 2001 and that may well be out of fashion now. It changes all the time, I think.”
I find it a tad disconcerting and a bit brainwashy that every single lecturer said the same thing about authorial intention. How can they say such a thing with conviction? They can’t. What happened to encouraging individual perception? We had to struggle with Barthes, too, at Uni but only as a considering all aspects kind of thing. And what of his own authorial intention? After all, he wrote too - what of analyses of his writings? Plus I graduated in 2003 - so we’re both in this millennium, not that old fashioned.
To go back to the theme of the film, the UK is now supposed to be the place with the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the world. A great record! Something is definitely wrong with our education system, somewhere.
May 30, 2008
Thanks for the link! I think not only do we have to be less critical of teen pregnancy (all those uncontrolled girls having sex! fancy that!) but we also need to be hypercritical of the losers who get them pregnant - never see any stats about them!
Hope Oz is lovely! We’re having a brief lull in the rain.
May 30, 2008
I know, it’s as if we think girls get themselves pregnant, or something… lol.
It’s supposed to be raining here this weekend, every day - I’m hoping it’ll be brief! It’s still quite warm, even though it’s almost “winter”! x
May 30, 2008
“there are so few positive cultural role models of teenage mums, but it doesn’t have to be a disaster”
You need to watch Gilmore Girls, Camilla!
June 1, 2008
“I find it a tad disconcerting and a bit brainwashy that every single lecturer said the same thing about authorial intention.”
Ooh, sorry, missed this. I may be misremembering it, Peepo - it was 7+ years ago after all - but I certainly remember it coming up a LOT. Although one particularly lecturer does immediately spring to mind so it may just have been that he was so charismatic (he was) and convincing, he’s overwhelmed the others in my memory.
I wouldn’t be surprised if their pet theories change from one semester to the next, never mind over two years. In fact, when I started they were all pronouncing Don Juan and Don Quixote the, um, Spanish (?) way and by the semester it was all “Don Joo-an” and “Don Quick-sote” (which I could not get used to!). Hey ho.
Also “Having had a baby at her age, keeping it and taking him to uni with me, I felt really offended.”
You know how I said pregnancy *is* a girl thing? I wonder if, in the history of the world, any boy has ever taken a baby to uni with him…
June 2, 2008
Oh, I wish we had had just ONE charismatic lecturer! I do envy you that, Keris.
Also “Having had a baby at her age, keeping it and taking him to uni with me, I felt really offended.”
Quote of a quote, sorry but there is the man in America who’s pregnant. Maybe he will take his baby to uni with him? Oh, well yes, his ’secret’ is that he used to be a girl but now he’s happily married to a woman, has a beard and is about to give birth. Apart from him, I can’t help thinking that some boy, somewhere, did take his baby to uni with him at some time.
I meant to say before - at Camilla - how much I admire and respect you. I couldn’t have done it. But I couldn’t have given my baby up either, not in a million squillion. That’s just me, though, and of course we are all so very different, thank goodness!
June 2, 2008
“Oh, I wish we had had just ONE charismatic lecturer! I do envy you that, Keris.”
We had quite a few actually, but they weren’t that keen on encouraging independent thought. Well, they made out that they were, but really it was best if by thinking independently we came to agree with them. Maybe that’s where I get it from ;)
Hmm. Not sure that bloke in America counts since he wouldn’t be having a baby at all if he wasn’t formerly a woman.
“Apart from him, I can’t help thinking that some boy, somewhere, did take his baby to uni with him at some time.”
I wanted to say, “Yes, I’m sure you’re probably right.” But I can’t quite bring myself to. I just can’t see it, to be honest. Maybe it has happened. Once.
June 4, 2008
Thanks Peepo!
Keris, I did hear of one guy at uni who had a baby with his girlfriend when both were 20 but they stuck together so maybe he doesn’t count?